Elimination of drisya (objects) means elimination of separate identities of the subject and object.

Devotee:  Why should the objects - drisya be eliminated? Cannot the Truth be realised even keeping the object as it is?

Ramana Maharishi:  No. Elimination of drisya means elimination of separate identities of the subject and object. The object is unreal. All drisya (including ego) is the object. Eliminating the unreal, the Reality survives. When a rope is mistaken for a snake, it is enough to remove the erroneous perception of the snake for the truth to be revealed. Without such elimination the truth will not dawn.

How is that Self to be known or realised?

Devotee:  How is that Self to be known or realised?

Ramana Maharishi:  Transcend the present plane of relativity. A separate being (Self) appears to know something apart from itself (non-Self). That is, the subject is aware of the object. The seer is drik; the seen is drisya. There must be a unity underlying these two, which arises as ‘ego’. This ego is of the nature of chit (intelligence); achit (insentient object) is only negation of chit. Therefore the underlying essence  is akin to the subject and not the object. Seeking the drik, until all drisya disappears, the drik will become subtler and subtler until the absolute drik alone survives. This process is called drisya vilaya (the disappearance of the objective world).

The secret lies in surrender

Devotee:  What is the rationalistic explanation of Draupadi’s sari becoming endless?


Ramana Maharishi:  Spiritual matters cannot be fitted into rationalism. Spirituality is transcendental. The miracle was after Draupadi had surrendered herself. The secret lies in surrender.

SILENCE is the best language.

Devotee:  Is Maharshi’s teaching the same as Sankara’s?


Ramana Maharishi:  Maharshi’s teaching is only an expression of his own experience and realisation. Others find that it tallies with Sri Sankara’s.


Devotee:   Quite so. Can it be put in other ways to express the same realisation?


Ramana Maharishi:   A realised person will use his own language. SILENCE is the best language.

Which is this unspoken word? It is only Silence

Ramana Maharishi:  In the sacred literature the following are seen:-
“Said without uttering”
“Showed remaining still as ever,” etc.
Which is this unspoken word? It is only Silence, Pranava or the Mahavakya.* These are also called the Word.

By driving away other thoughts which counteract this (the thought 'not away from Self')

Devotee:  What will aid me to fix my attention always at Thy Holy Feet?


Ramana Maharishi:  The thought ‘Am I ever away from the feet?’


Devotee:   How is this thought to be fixed?


Ramana Maharishi:   By driving away other thoughts which counteract this

Ultimately this (single thought) will also disappear, leaving Pure Consciousness behind

Devotee:  Is will-power gained by divesting oneself of thoughts?

Ramana Maharishi:  Rather by confining oneself to a single thought. Ultimately this will also disappear, leaving Pure Consciousness behind. Concentration helps one to it.

(What) is affliction (for one) and for the other man it is an achievement and a pleasure.

Devotee:  I have seen a man with his arm lifted all his life.


Ramana Maharishi:  That is vairagya.


Devotee:  Why should one afflict his body for the purpose?


Ramana Maharishi:  You think it is affliction whereas it is a vow and for the other man it is an achievement and a pleasure.

Cease to be a knower, then there is perfection.

Ramana Maharishi:  There are different grades of mind. Realisation is of Perfection. It cannot be comprehended by the mind. Sarvajnatva (the state of all-knowing) is to be sarvam (the all); ‘the all’ pertains only to the mind. The known and unknown together form ‘the all’. After transcending the mind you remain as the Self. The present knowledge is only of limitation. That Knowledge is unlimited. Being so it cannot be comprehended by this knowledge. Cease to be a knower, then there is perfection.

The ever-present state is the natural state sahaja.

Devotee:  Does Maharshi enter the nirvikalpa samadhi?

Ramana Maharishi:  If the eyes are closed, it is nirvikalpa; if open, it is (though differentiated, still in absolute repose) savikalpa. The ever-present state is the natural state sahaja.

The extremely visible being (of the Guru) pushes the mind inward.

Ramana Maharishi:  Association with the wise will make the mind sink into the Heart. Such association is both mental and physical. The extremely visible being (of the Guru) pushes the mind inward. He is also in the heart of the seeker and so he draws the latter’s inward-bent mind into the Heart.

Anything seen cannot be real. That is the truth.

Ramana Maharishi:  Visvatma darsana is visvarupa darsana i.e., the universal Self of the cosmic Self is the cosmos. Sri Krishna started the discourse in Chapter II, saying, “I have no form”. In Chapter XI, He says, “See my form as the Universe”. Is it consistent? Again he says, “I transcend the three worlds”, but Arjuna sees the three worlds in Him. Sri Krishna says, “I cannot be seen by men, Gods, etc.”; yet Arjuna sees himself and the Gods in Him. No one could see and yet Arjuna was endowed with divine sight to see Him. Does it not look a maze of contradictions? The answer is that the understanding is wrong. Sthula dristi on the physical plane is absurd. Jnana dristi (subtle understanding) is necessary. That is why Arjuna was given divya chakshuh (divine sight). Can such sight be gross? Will such interpretation lead you to a right understanding?
Sri Krishna says Kalosmi, ‘I am Time’. Does Time have shape? Again if the universe be His form should it not be one and unchanging? Why does He say to Arjuna, “See in me whatever you desire to see?” That means that His form is according to the desires of the seer. They speak of ‘divine sight’ and yet paint the scene, each according to his own view. There is the seer also in the seen. What is all this? Even a mesmerist can make you see strange scenes. You call this a trick, whereas the other you call divine. Why this difference? Anything seen cannot be real. That is the truth.

The devotee, God and the Hymns are all the Self

Devotee:  I have been reading the Five Hymns. I find that the hymns are addressed to Arunachala by you. You are an Advaitin. How do you then address God as a separate Being?

Ramana Maharishi:  The devotee, God and the Hymns are all the Self.



Devotee:  But you are addressing God. You are specifying this Arunachala Hill as God.


Ramana Maharishi:  You can identify the Self with the body. Should not the devotee identify the Self with Arunachala?



Devotee:  If Arunachala be the Self why should it be specially picked out among so many other hills? God is everywhere. Why do you specify Him as Arunachala?


Ramana Maharishi:  What has attracted you from Allahabad to this place? What has attracted all these people around?



Devotee:  Sri Bhagavan.


Ramana Maharishi:  How was I attracted here? By Arunachala. The Power cannot be denied. Again Arunachala is within and not without. The Self is Arunachala.



Devotee:  Several terms are used in the holy books - Atman, Paramatman, Para, etc. What is the gradation in them?


Ramana Maharishi:  They mean the same to the user of the words. But they are understood differently by persons according to their development.



Devotee:  But why do they use so many words to mean the same thing?


Ramana Maharishi: It is according to circumstances. They all mean the Self. Para means ‘not relative’ or ‘beyond the relative’, that is to say, the Absolute.

A person might be so abstracted or live freely among people without detriment to his Peace and Happiness

Devotee:  Can samadhi come and go?

Ramana Maharishi:  What is samadhi? Samadhi is one’s essential nature. How then can it come or go? If you do not realise your essential nature, your sight remains obstructed. What is the obstruction? Find it and remove it. So one’s efforts are meant only for the removal of obstructions which hide the true vision. The real nature remains the same. When once it is realised it is permanent.


Devotee:  But Mr. Brunton says that he had one hour’s samadhi. Therefore I asked the question.


Ramana Maharishi:  A practiser gains peace of mind and is happy. That peace is the result of his efforts. But the real state must be effortless. The effortless samadhi is the true one and the perfect state. It is permanent. The efforts are spasmodic and so also their results. When the real, effortless, permanent, happy nature is realised it will be found to be not inconsistent with the ordinary activities of life. The samadhi reached after efforts looks like abstraction from the external activities. A person might be so abstracted or live freely among people without detriment to his Peace and Happiness because that is his true nature or the Self.

What is the difference between a man who makes no attempts and remains an ajnani, and another who gains a glimpse and returns to ajnana?

Devotee:  What is the difference between a man who makes no attempts and remains an ajnani, and another who gains a glimpse and returns to ajnana?

Ramana Maharishi:  In the latter case a stimulus is always present to goad him on to further efforts until the realisation is perfect.



Devotee:  The Srutis say: Sakrit vibhatoyam brahmaloka (This knowledge of Brahman shines forth once and forever).


Ramana Maharishi:  They refer to the permanent realisation and not to the glimpse.



Devotee:  How is it possible that a man forgets his very experience and falls back into ignorance?


Ramana Maharishi illustrated it with the following story:

There was a king who treated his subjects well. One of his ministers gained his confidence and misused the influence. All the other ministers and officers were adversely affected and they hit upon a plan to get rid of him. They instructed the guards not to let the man enter the palace. The king noted his absence and enquired after him. He was informed that the man was taken ill and could not therefore come to the palace. The king deputed his physician to attend on the minister. False reports were conveyed to the king that the minister was sometimes improving and at other times collapsing. The king desired to see the patient. But the pandits said that such an action was against dharma. Later the  minister was reported to have died. The king was very sorry when he heard the news. The arrogant minister was kept informed of all the happenings by spies of his own. He tried to foil the other ministers. He waited for the king to come out of the palace so that he might report himself to the king. On one occasion he climbed up a tree, hid himself among the branches and awaited the king. The king came out that night in the palanquin and the man in hiding jumped down in front of the palanquin and shouted his identity. The companion of the king was equally resourceful. He at once took out a handful of sacred ashes (vibhuti) from his pocket and scattered it in the air so that the king was obliged to close his eyes. The companion shouted victory (‘jai’) to the king and ordered the band to play so that the other man’s shout was drowned in the noise. He also ordered the palanquin-bearers to move fast and he himself sang incantations to keep off evil spirits. The king was thus left under the impression that the dead man’s ghost was playing pranks with him. The disappointed man became desperate and retired into the forest for tapasya (austerities). After a long time the king happened to go hunting. He came across the former minister seated in deep contemplation. But he hastened away from the spot lest the ghost should molest him. The moral of the story is that even though the man was seen in flesh and blood, yet the wrong notion that he was a ghost prevented right values being taken. So it is with a forced realisation of the Self.

The ajnani’s experience is clouded by his latencies whereas the jnani’s is not so.

Devotee:  There is a statement in the book Vichara Sangraha that though a person realises the Self once, he cannot, for that simple reason alone, become a mukta. He continues to remain a victim of vasanas (latencies). Sri Bhagavan was asked whether the realisation referred to was the same as the jnani’s, and if so why there should be a difference in their effects.

Ramana Mahaishi:  The experience is the same. Every person experiences the Self consciously or unconsciously. The ajnani’s experience is clouded by his latencies whereas the jnani’s is not so. The jnani’s experience of the Self is therefore distinct and permanent. A practiser may by long practice gain a glimpse of the Reality. This experience may be vivid for the time being. And yet he will be distracted by the old vasanas and so his experience will not avail him. Such a man must continue his manana and nididhyasana so that all the obstacles may be destroyed. He will then be able to remain permanently in the Real State.

How is the ‘I-I’ consciousness felt?

Devotee:  How is the ‘I-I’ consciousness felt?

Ramana Maharishi:  As an unbroken awareness of ‘I’. It is simply consciousness.


Devotee:  Can we know it when it dawns?


Ramana Maharishi:  Yes, as consciousness. You are that even now. There will be no mistaking it when it is pure.

Bhuma (Supreme Consciousness) alone is. Nothing else. It is the mind, which says all this

Devotee:  After long years of discipline and practice I am having some mystic experiences. I feel sometimes that Bhuma (Supreme Consciousness) is infinitude and that I am finite consciousness. Is that correct?”


Ramana Maharishi:  Bhuma (Perfection) alone is. It is Infinite. There arises from it this finite consciousness taking on an upadhi (limiting adjunct). This is abhasa or reflection. Merge this individual consciousness into the Supreme One. That is what should be done. 


Devotee:  Bhuma is an attribute of Supreme Consciousness.


Ramana Maharishi:  Bhuma is the Supreme - yatra naanyat pasyati yatra naanyat srunoti sa bhuma (where one does not see any other, hears nothing, it is Perfection). It is indefinable and indescribable. It is as it is.


Devotee:  There is a vastness experienced. Probably it is just below Bhuma but close to it. Am I right?

Ramana Maharishi:  Bhuma alone is. Nothing else. It is the mind, which says all this.


Devotee:  Transcending the mind I feel the vastness.


Ramana Maharishi:  Yes, Yes....

You are always in the Self - now, in trance, in deep sleep, in Realisation.

Devotee desired to know if trance is a sine qua non for Self-Realisation.


Ramana Maharishi:  You are always in the Self - now, in trance, in deep sleep, in Realisation. If you lose hold of the Self and identify yourself with the body or the mind, these states appear to overtake you, and it also looks like a blank in trance, etc.; whereas you are the Self and ever-present.

The ultimate Truth is so simple. It is nothing more than being in the pristine state.

Ramana Maharishi:  The ultimate Truth is so simple. It is nothing more than being in the pristine state. This is all that need be said. Still, it is a wonder that to teach this simple Truth there should come into being so many religions, creeds, methods and disputes among them and so on! Oh the pity! Oh the pity!


Devotee:  But people will not be content with simplicity; they want complexity.


Ramana Maharishi:   Quite so. Because they want something elaborate and attractive and puzzling, so many religions have come into existence and each of them is so complex and each creed in each religion has its own adherents and antagonists. For example, an ordinary Christian will not be  satisfied unless he is  told that God is somewhere in the far-off Heavens not to be reached by us unaided. Christ alone knew Him and Christ alone can guide us. Worship Christ and be saved. If told the simple truth - “The Kingdom of Heaven is within you” - he is not satisfied and will read complex and far-fetched meanings in such statements. Mature minds alone can grasp the simple Truth in all its nakedness.

The real ‘I’ is always there. It is here and now. It never appears anew and disappears again.

Devotee:  Of what nature is the realisation of Westerners who relate that they have had flashes of cosmic consciousness?


Ramana Maharishi:  It came as a flash and disappeared as such. That which has a beginning must also end. Only when the ever-present consciousness is realised will it be permanent. Consciousness is indeed always with us. Everyone knows ‘I am!’ No one can deny his own being. The man in deep slumber is not aware; while awake he seems to be aware. But it is the same person. There is no change in the one who slept and the one who is now awake. In deep sleep he was not aware of his body; there was no body-consciousness. In the wakeful state he is aware of his body; there is body-consciousness. Therefore the difference lies in the emergence of body-consciousness and not in any change in the Real Consciousness. The body and body-consciousness arise together and sink together. All this amounts to saying that there are no limitations in deep sleep, whereas there are limitations in the waking state. These limitations are the bondage; the feeling ‘The body is I’ is the error. This false sense of ‘I’ must go. The real ‘I’ is always there. It is here and now. It never appears anew and disappears again. That which is must also persist for ever. That which appears anew will also be lost. Compare deep sleep and waking. The body appears in one state but not in the other. Therefore the body will be lost. The consciousness was pre-existent and will survive the body. In fact, there is no one who does not say ‘I am’. The wrong knowledge of ‘I am the body’ is the cause of all the mischief. This wrong knowledge must go. That is Realisation.  Realisation is not acquisition of anything new nor it is a new faculty. It is only removal of all camouflage.

If one remains always in dhyana, can any sin, however heinous it be, survive his dhyana?

Ramana Maharishi:  The person soaked in the “I-am-the-body” idea is the greatest sinner and he is a suicide. The experience of “I-am-the-Self” is the highest  virtue. Even a moment’s dhyana to that effect is enough to destroy all the sanchita Karma. It works like the sun before whom darkness is dispelled. If one remains always in dhyana, can any sin, however heinous it be, survive his dhyana?

Any kind of activity does not affect a Jnani; his mind remains ever in eternal Peace.

Devotee:  “Can jnana be lost after being once attained?”


Ramana Maharishi:  Jnana, once revealed, takes time to steady itself. The Self is certainly within the direct experience of everyone, but not as one imagines it to be. It is only as it is. This Experience is samadhi. Just as fire remains without scorching against incantations or other devices but  scorches otherwise, so also the Self remains veiled by vasanas and reveals itself when there are no vasanas. Owing to the fluctuation of the vasanas, jnana takes time to steady itself. Unsteady jnana is not enough to check rebirths. Jnana cannot remain unshaken side by side with vasanas. True, that in the proximity of a great master, the vasanas will cease to be active, the mind becomes still and samadhi results, similar to fire not scorching because of other devices. Thus the disciple gains true knowledge and right experience in the presence of the master. To remain unshaken in it further efforts are necessary. He will know it to be his real Being and thus be liberated even while alive. Samadhi with closed eyes is certainly good, but one must go further until it is realised that actionlessness and action are not hostile to each other. Fear of loss of samadhi while one is active is the sign of ignorance. Samadhi must be the natural life of everyone. There is a state beyond our efforts or effortlessness. Until it is realised effort is necessary. After tasting such Bliss, even once one will repeatedly try to regain it. Having once  experienced the Bliss of Peace no one would like to be out of it or engaged himself otherwise. It is as difficult for a Jnani to engage in thoughts as it is for an ajnani to be free from thought. The common man says that he does not know himself; he thinks many thoughts and cannot remain without thinking. Any kind of activity does not affect a Jnani; his mind remains ever in eternal Peace.

There are vasanas in the latent state even in trance. The vasanas must be destroyed.

Ramana Manarhisi:  Visions and thought-currents are had according to the state of mind. It depends on the individuals and not upon the Universal Presence. Moreover, they are immaterial. What matters is Peace of Mind.


D.: Peace of mind is the result of trance. How is trance got?


Ramana Manarhisi:  Trance is only absence of thoughts. That state prevails in sleep. Do you have enduring peace of mind on that account?
….


Ramana Manarhisi:  Trance is only temporary in its effects. There is happiness so long as it lasts. After rising from it the old vasanas return. Unless the vasanas are destroyed in sahaja samadhi (effortless samadhi), there is no good of trance.


D.: But trance must precede sahaja samadhi?


Ramana Manarhisi:  Trance is the natural state. Although there are activities and phenomena, yet they do not affect the trance. If they are realised to be not apart from the Self, the Self is realised. Where is the use of trance, unless it brings about enduring peace of mind? Know that even now you are in trance whatever happens. That is all.


D.: If trance be my natural state, why is it said that trance is necessary to be got before Realisation?


Ramana Manarhisi:  That means that one should be aware of his eternal state of trance. Inattentiveness to it is ignorance. Pramado vai mrtyuh (inattention is death itself).


D.: How can I be attentive without getting trance beforehand?


Ramana Manarhisi:  Very well. If you are so anxious for trance any narcotic will bring it about. Drug-habit will be the result and not liberation. There are vasanas in the latent state even in trance. The vasanas must be destroyed.

When the one Real ‘I’ remains alone, it will not be saying; “I am Brahman”. Does a man go on repeating “I am a man”?

Devotee:  As I go on thinking of it there is forgetfulness, the brain becomes heated and I am afraid.


Ramana Maharishi:  Yes, the mind is concentrated in the brain and hence you get a hot sensation there. It is because of the ‘I-thought’. So long as there is thought there will be forgetfulness. There is the thought “I am Brahman”; forgetfulness supervenes; then the ‘I-thought’ arises and simultaneously the fear of death also. Forgetfulness and thought are for ‘I-thought’ only. Hold it; it will disappear as a phantom. What remains over is the real ‘I’. That is the Self. ‘I am Brahman’ is an aid to concentration. It keeps off other thoughts. That one thought alone persists. See whose is that thought. It will be found to be from ‘I’. Where from is the ‘I’ thought? Probe into it. The ‘I thought’ will vanish. The Supreme Self will shine forth of itself. No further effort is needed. When the one Real ‘I’ remains alone, it will not be saying; “I am Brahman”. Does a man go on repeating “I am a man”? Unless he is challenged, why should he declare himself a man? Does anyone mistake oneself for a brute, that he should say “No. I am not a brute; I am a man”? Similarly, Brahman or ‘I’ being alone, there is no one there to challenge it and so there is no need to be repeating “I am Brahman”.