What is svarupa (form) and arupa (formless) of the mind?

Devotee:   What is svarupa (form) and arupa (formless) of the mind?


Ramana Maharishi:  When you wake up from sleep a light appears, that is the light of the Self passing through Mahat tattva. It is called cosmic consciousness. That is arupa. The light falls on the ego and is reflected therefrom. Then the body and the world are seen. This mind is svarupa. The objects appear in the light of this reflected consciousness. This light is called jyoti.

Because the ego identifies itself with limitations, the body is considered separate and the world separate.

Ramana Maharishi:  Again, (in the microcosm) the body and all other objects are all contained in the brain. The light is projected on the brain. The impressions in the brain become manifest as the body and the worlds. Because the ego identifies itself with limitations, the body is considered separate and the world separate. Lying down on your bed in a closed room with eyes closed you dream of London, the crowds there and you among them …….Although the world is so big and the brain so small, is it not a matter of wonder that such a big creation is contained in such small compass as one’s brain?

The world is seen with the mind, that is, by the reflected light of the Self.

Ramana Maharishi:  The Self is the Heart. The Heart is self luminous. Light arises from the Heart and reaches the brain, which is the seat of the mind. The world is seen with the mind, that is, by the reflected light of the Self. It is perceived with the aid of the mind. When the mind is illumined it is aware of the world. When it is not itself so illumined, it is not aware of the world. If the mind is turned in towards the source of light, objective knowledge ceases and Self alone shines forth as the Heart. The moon shines by the reflected light of the sun. When the sun has set, the moon is useful for revealing objects. When the sun has risen, no one needs the moon, although the pale disc of the moon is visible in the sky. So it is with the mind and the Heart. The mind is useful because of its reflected light. It is used for seeing objects. When it is turned inwards, the source of illumination shines forth by itself, and the mind remains dim and useless like the moon in day-time.

Awareness of Self is ever there. Remain what you truly are and this question will not arise

Devotee:  How may one destroy the mind?


Ramana Maharishi:  Is there a mind in the first place? What you call mind is an illusion. It starts from the ‘I-thought’. Without the gross or subtle senses you cannot be aware of the body or the mind. Still it is possible for you to be without these senses. In such a state you are either asleep or aware of the Self only. Awareness of Self is ever there. Remain what you truly are and this question will not arise

Sleep is intermediate between two waking states, so also death is between two successive births.

Ramana Maharishi:  Sleep is intermediate between two waking states, so also death is between two successive births.  Both are transient.

All are dear because of the love of the Self

Devotee began, “After the return of body-consciousness ...”


Ramana Maharishi:  What is body-consciousness? Tell us that first. Who are you apart from consciousness? Body is found because there is body consciousness which arises from ‘I-consciousness’ which again rises from consciousness. Consciousness → ‘I-consciousness’ → body-consciousness →body.  There is always consciousness and nothing but that. What you are now considering to be body-consciousness is due to superimposition. If there is only consciousness and nothing but it, the meaning of the Scripture Atmanastu kamaya sarvam priyam bhavati - (All are dear because of the love of the Self) becomes clear. A question arises, why there should be suicides in that case. Why does one do it? Because he is unhappy and desires to put an end to his unhappiness. He actually does it by ending the association with the body which represents all unhappiness. For there must be a killer to kill the body. He is the survivor after suicide. That is the Self.

To be the Self is the same as seeing the Self.

Ramana Maharishi:  To be the Self is the same as seeing the Self. There are no two selves for the one to see the other.

What is the method best suited to a grihasta?

Devotee:  How is Poorna Brahman to be attained? What is the method best suited to a grihasta?

Ramana Maharishi:  You have already said poorna, i.e., perfection. Are you apart from Poorna? If apart from it, will it be poorna? If not apart how does the question arise? The knowledge that Brahman is poorna and that you are not apart from the same is the finality. See it and you will find that you are not a grihasta or any limited being.

The world-phenomena, within or without, are only passing phenomena not independent of our Self

Devotee:  What is turiya?

Ramana Maharishi:  There are three states only, the waking, dream and sleep. Turiya is not a fourth one; it is what underlies these three. But people do not readily understand it. Therefore it is said that this is the fourth state and the only Reality. In fact it is not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings; it is the only Truth; it is your very Being. The three states appear as fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone. Therefore they are unreal. The pictures in a cinema show are only shadows passing over the screen. They make their appearance; move forward and backward; change from one to another; are therefore unreal whereas the screen all along remains unchanged. Similarly with paintings: the images are unreal and the canvas real. So also with us: the world-phenomena, within or without, are only passing phenomena not independent of our Self. Only the habit of looking on them as being real and located outside ourselves is responsible for hiding our true being and showing forth the others. The ever-present only Reality, the Self, being found, all other unreal things will disappear, leaving behind the knowledge that they are no other than the Self. Turiya only another name for the Self. Aware of the waking, dream and sleep states, we remain unaware of our own Self. Nevertheless the Self is here and now, it is the only Reality. There is nothing else. So long as identification with the body lasts the world seems to lie outside us. Only realise the Self and they are not.

Dhira is the one who always keeps the mind inward bent without letting it loose.

Ramana Maharishi:   The Self being always the Self, why should only a dhira be illumined? Does it mean a man of courage? No; dhih = intellect; rah = watch; protection. So dhira is the one who always keeps the mind inward bent without letting it loose.

That which does not rise will not subside. It is and will be for ever.

Ramana Maharishi:  The ‘I’ which rises will also subside. That is the individual ‘I’ or the ‘I’- concept. That which does not rise will not subside. It is and will be for ever. That is the universal ‘I’, the perfect ‘I’, or realisation of the Self.

Effortlessness while remaining aware is the state of Bliss, and that is Realisation.

Devotee:  Pray help me realise Atma - Paramatma - Satchidananda.


Ramana Maharishi:  Atma - Paramatma - Satchidananda mean one and the same thing, i.e., the Self. The Self is eternally realised. Otherwise there will be no pleasure in it. If it is not eternal it must have a beginning; what begins will also end; so that it is only transient. There is no use seeking for a temporary state of affairs. The fact is that it is the state of effortless, ever alert Peace. Effortlessness while remaining aware is the state of Bliss, and that is Realisation.

How to discern the ego from the Perfect ‘I-I’?

Devotee:  How to discern the ego from the Perfect ‘I-I’?

Ramana Maharishi:  That which rises and falls is the transient ‘I’. That which has neither origin nor end is the permanent ‘I-I’ consciousness.

If atma-vichara (self-investigation), ceases, loka vichara (worldinvestigation) takes its place.

Devotee:  Is there a limit to the Self?

Ramana Maharishi:  What is the Self?



Devotee:  The Individual soul is the Self.



Ramana Maharishi:  What is the individual soul? Is there any difference between the two or are they identical? Any new appearances are bound to disappear. Anything created will certainly be destroyed. The eternal is not born nor does it die. We are now confounding appearances with reality.  Appearance carries its end in itself. What is it that appears newly? If you cannot find it, surrender to the substratum of appearances  unreservedly; then, the reality will be left over as the residue.



Devotee:  Who is to ask these questions?



Ramana Maharishi:  Exactly - that is it. There is no end to it all.



Devotee:  Are we then to keep quiet?



Ramana Maharishi:  Doubts cease to afflict when the confusion (moha) is surpassed.



Devotee:  Your statements amount to cessation of vichara - investigation.



Ramana Maharishi:  If atma-vichara (self-investigation), ceases, loka vichara (worldinvestigation) takes its place. (Laughter in the hall). Engage in Self-investigation, then the non-self will disappear. The Self will be left over. This is self-investigation of the Self. The one word Self is equivalent to the mind, body, man, individual. The Supreme and all else.

You are taken up by the manifestations of the mind and let go the background. Whose fault is it?

Devotee:  What is the one Real thing?

Ramana Maharishi:  That is what is: the others are only appearances. Diversity is not its nature. We are reading the printed characters on paper but ignore the paper which is the background. Similarly you are taken up by the manifestations of the mind and let go the background. Whose fault is it?

Turn your look within and plunge down; you will be the Self.

Devotee:  How to know the Self?

Ramana Maharishi:  Are there two ‘I’s? How do you know your own existence? Do you see yourself with these eyes? Question yourself. How does this question arise? Do I remain to ask it or not? Can I find my Self as in a mirror? Because your outlook has been outward bent, it has lost sight of the Self and your vision is external. The Self is not found in external objects. Turn your look within and plunge down; you will be the Self.

What is samadhi?

Devotee:  Is the Supreme Being with or without attributes?


Ramana Maharishi:  Know first if you are with or without attributes.


Devotee:  What is samadhi?


Ramana Maharishi:  One’s own true nature.


Devotee:  Why then is effort necessary to attain it?


Ramana Maharishi:  Whose is the effort?

The consciousness which pervades even Isvara is the Absolute one.

Devotee:  Then cosmic consciousness is not the same as realisation?

Ramana Maharishi:  Cosmic consciousness is behind the ego. It may be called Isvara, and the ego is jiva. Isvara may also be said to be the Absolute. There is no difference there. The consciousness which pervades even Isvara is the Absolute one.

This ignorance must be traced to its origin. To whom is this ignorance? Of what is one ignorant?

Ramana Maharishi:  There is in fact nothing but the Atman. The world is only a projection of the mind. The mind originates from the Atman. So Atman alone is the One Being.


Devotee:  Yet it is difficult to realise.



Ramana Maharishi:   There is nothing to realise. It is nitya suddha buddha mukta (the Eternal, pure, aware and liberated) state. It is natural and eternal.  There is nothing new to gain. On the other hand a man must loose his ignorance. That is all. This ignorance must be traced to its origin. To whom is this ignorance? Of what is one ignorant? There are the subject and the object. Such duality is characteristic of the mind. The mind is from the Atman.

The ‘I-I’ is always there. There is no knowing it. It is not a new knowledge acquired.

Ramana Maharishi:  The ‘I-I’ is always there. There is no knowing it. It is not a new knowledge acquired. What is new and not here and now will be evanescent only. The ‘I’ is always there. There is obstruction to its knowledge and it is called ignorance. Remove the ignorance and knowledge shines forth. In fact this ignorance or even knowledge is not for Atman. They are only overgrowths to be cleared off. That is why Atman is said to be beyond knowledge and ignorance. It remains as it naturally is - that is all.

Grace is the Self. It is not manifest because of ignorance prevailing

Ramana Maharishi:  Grace is the Self. It is not manifest because of ignorance prevailing. With sraddha, it will become manifest.Sraddha, Grace, Light, Spirit are all synonymous with the Self.

The Real Self is continuous and unaffected.

Devotee:  Is the Buddhist view, that there is no continuous entity answering to the ideas of the individual soul, correct or not? Is this consistent with the Hindu notion of a reincarnating ego? Is the soul a continuous entity which reincarnates again and again, according to the Hindu doctrine, or is it a mere mass of mental tendencies - samskaras?

Ramana Maharishi:  The Real Self is continuous and unaffected. The reincarnating ego belongs to the lower plane, namely, thought. It is transcended by Self-Realisation. Reincarnations are due to a spurious offshoot. Therefore it is denied by the Buddhists. The present state is due to a mixing up of the chit (sentient) with jada (insentient).

What happens after birth in human form, what happens to the jiva?

Devotee:  What happens after birth in human form, what happens to the jiva?

Ramana Maharishi:  Let us know first what we are. We do not understand what we are, and until we know what we are there is no room for such a question. (Bhagavan obviously here refers to the confusion of body as Atman - dehatma buddhi - which is the cause for this confusion of ideas of death and birth, for Atman has no birth or death, it is untainted by the elements of Earth, Fire, Air and Water, etc.) (Gita II, 11) - Asochyam anvosochas tvam, projnavadamscha bhashase, etc. - What is it that had birth? Whom do you call a man? If, instead of seeking explanation for birth, death and after- death matters, the question is raised as to who and how you are now, these questions will not arise. You are the same while asleep (deep sleep), in dream and in waking state. Is the ‘I’ thought jiva, or the body jiva? Is this thought or nature? Or is the experience that we live, etc., our nature? (Quotes the sloka from the Gita: Yada te . . . II, 52.)

How are we to understand this passage in the Gita: “This whole cosmos forms a particle of Me.”

Devotee:  How are we to understand this passage in the Gita: “This whole cosmos forms a particle of Me.”


Ramana Maharshi:  It does not mean that a small particle of God separates from Him
and forms the Universe. His Sakti is acting; as a result of one phase of such activity the cosmos has become manifest. Similarly, the statement in Purusha Sukta, “All the beings form His one foot (Padosya viswa bhutani) does not mean that Brahman is in four parts.


Devotee:  I understand it. Brahman is certainly not divisible.


Ramana Maharshi:  So the fact is that Brahman is all and remains indivisible. He is ever realised. The man does not however know it. He must know it. Knowledge means the overcoming of obstacles which obstruct the revelation of the Eternal Truth that the Self is the same as Brahman. The obstacles form altogether your idea of separateness as an individual. Therefore the present attempt will result in the truth being revealed that the Self is not separate from Brahman.

For God is not separate from you or the cosmos.

Ramana Maharishi:  You now think that you are an individual, there is the universe and that God is beyond the cosmos. So there is the idea of separateness. This idea must go. For God is not separate from you or the cosmos.


The Gita also says:
The Self am I, O Lord of Sleep,
In every creature’s heart enshrined.
The rise and noon of every form,
I am its final doom as well. B. G., X. 20.


Thus God is not only in the heart of all, He is the prop of all, He is the source of all, their abiding place and their end. All proceed from Him, have their stay in Him, and finally resolve into Him. Therefore He is not separate.

See to whom the doubts arise. Go to their source and abide in it. Then they cease to arise.

Devotee:  Doubts are always arising. Hence my question.


Ramana Maharishi:  A doubt arises and is cleared; another arises and that is cleared, making way for another, and so it goes on. So there is no possibility of clearing away all doubts. See to whom the doubts arise. Go to their source and abide in it. Then they cease to arise. That is how doubts are to be cleared. Atma samstham manah krtva na kinchidapi chintayet.

When thoughts arise duality is present; know it to be the ego, and seek its source.

Devotee:  When I go on analysing myself I go beyond the intellect, and then there is no happiness.


Ramana Maharishi:  Intellect is only an instrument of the Self. It cannot help you to know what is beyond itself.


Devotee:   I understand it. But there is no happiness beyond it.


Ramana Maharishi:  The intellect is the instrument wherewith to know unknown things. But you are already known, being the Self which is itself knowledge; so you do not become the object of knowledge. The intellect makes you see things outside, and not that which is its own source.


Devotee:   The question is repeated.


Ramana Maharishi:  The intellect is useful thus far, it helps you to analyse yourself, and no further. It must then be merged into the ego, and the source of the ego must be sought. If that be done the ego disappears. Remain as that source and then the ego does not arise


Devotee:   There is no happiness in that state.


Ramana Maharishi:  ‘There is no happiness’ is only a thought. The Self is bliss, pure and simple. You are the Self. So you cannot but be bliss; being so, you cannot say here is no happiness. That which says so cannot be the Self; it is the non-Self and must be got rid of in order to realise the bliss of the Self.


Devotee:   How is that to be done?


Ramana Maharishi:  See wherefrom the thought arises. It is the mind. See for whom the mind or intellect functions. For the ego. Merge the intellect in the ego and seek the source of the ego. The ego disappears. ‘I know’ and ‘I do not know’ imply a subject and an object. They are due to duality. The Self is pure and absolute, One and alone. There are no two selves so that one may know the other. What is duality then? It cannot be the Self which is One and alone. It must be non-Self. Duality is the characteristic of the ego. When thoughts  arise duality is present; know it to be the ego, and seek its source. The degree of the absence of thoughts is the measure of your progress towards Self-Realisation. But Self-Realisation itself does not admit of progress; it is ever the same. The Self remains always in realisation. The obstacles are thoughts. Progress is measured by the degree of
removal of the obstacles to understanding that the Self is always realised. So thoughts must be checked by seeking to whom they arise. So you go to their Source, where they do not arise.

Your repayment consists in not lapsing into ignorance over again but in continuing in the state of your real Self

Ramana Maharishi:  The Reality is alone and eternal. To understand it is good enough. But the old ignorance should not return. A good watch must be kept lest the present understanding of the Truth suffers later on. A disciple served a master a long time and realised the Self. He was in Bliss and wanted to express his gratitude to the master. He was in tears of joy and his voice choked when he spoke. He said, “What a wonder that I did not know my very Self all these years? I suffered  long and you so graciously helped me to realise the Self. How shall I repay your Grace? It is not in my power to do it!” The master replied: “Well, well. Your repayment consists in not lapsing into ignorance over again but in continuing in the state of your real Self.”