Devotee: The sleep state is the state when the mind is quiet. I consider it a worse state.
Ramana Maharishi: If that were so, why do all desire sleep?
Devotee: It is the body when tired that goes to sleep.
Ramana Maharishi: Does the body sleep?
Devotee: Yes. It is the condition in which the wear and tear of the body is repaired.
Ramana Maharishi: Let it be so. But does the body itself sleep or wake up? You yourself said shortly before that the mind is quiet in sleep. The three states are of the mind.
Devotee: Are they not states of the soul functioning through the senses, etc.?
Ramana Maharishi: They are not of the soul or of the body. The soul remains always uncontaminated. It is the substratum running through all these three states. Wakefulness passes off, I am; the dream state passes off, I am; the sleep state passes off, I am. They repeat themselves, and yet I am. They are like pictures moving on the screen in a cinema show. They do not affect the screen. Similarly also, I remain unaffected although these states pass off. If it is of the body, are you aware of the body in sleep?
Devotee: No.
Ramana Maharishi: Without knowing the body to be there how can the body be said to be in sleep?
Devotee: Because it is still found after waking up.
Ramana Maharishi: The sense of body is a thought; the thought is of the mind, the mind rises after the ‘I-thought’, the ‘I-thought’ is the root thought. If that is held, the other thoughts will disappear. There will then be no body, no mind, not even the ego.
Devotee: What will remain then?
Ramana Maharishi: The Self in its purity.
Devotee: How can the mind be made to vanish?
Ramana Maharishi: No attempt is made to destroy it. To think or wish it is itself a thought. If the thinker is sought, the thoughts will disappear.
Ramana Maharishi: If that were so, why do all desire sleep?
Devotee: It is the body when tired that goes to sleep.
Ramana Maharishi: Does the body sleep?
Devotee: Yes. It is the condition in which the wear and tear of the body is repaired.
Ramana Maharishi: Let it be so. But does the body itself sleep or wake up? You yourself said shortly before that the mind is quiet in sleep. The three states are of the mind.
Devotee: Are they not states of the soul functioning through the senses, etc.?
Ramana Maharishi: They are not of the soul or of the body. The soul remains always uncontaminated. It is the substratum running through all these three states. Wakefulness passes off, I am; the dream state passes off, I am; the sleep state passes off, I am. They repeat themselves, and yet I am. They are like pictures moving on the screen in a cinema show. They do not affect the screen. Similarly also, I remain unaffected although these states pass off. If it is of the body, are you aware of the body in sleep?
Devotee: No.
Ramana Maharishi: Without knowing the body to be there how can the body be said to be in sleep?
Devotee: Because it is still found after waking up.
Ramana Maharishi: The sense of body is a thought; the thought is of the mind, the mind rises after the ‘I-thought’, the ‘I-thought’ is the root thought. If that is held, the other thoughts will disappear. There will then be no body, no mind, not even the ego.
Devotee: What will remain then?
Ramana Maharishi: The Self in its purity.
Devotee: How can the mind be made to vanish?
Ramana Maharishi: No attempt is made to destroy it. To think or wish it is itself a thought. If the thinker is sought, the thoughts will disappear.
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