Although the expression of realisation is impossible, still its existence is indicated

Devotee: “It is said that realisation is beyond expression; and expression always fails to describe the realisation. How is it?”

Ramana Maharishi: The point has been mentioned in Arunachala Ashtakam, Verse three where it is admitted that, although the expression of realisation is impossible, still its existence is indicated.

The ‘I-thought’ is the ego and that is lost. The real ‘I’ is “I am That I Am.”

Devotee:   May we read the Bible?

Ramana Maharishi:   The Bible and the Gita are the same.

Devotee:   The Bible teaches that Man is born in sin.

Ramana Maharishi:   The Man is sin. There was no man-sense in deep sleep. The body thought brings out the idea of sin. The birth of thought is itself sin.

To another question the Master said: Everyone sees only the Self. The divine forms are only like bubbles in the ocean of Reality, or like pictures moving on a screen.

Devotee:   The Bible says that the human soul may be lost.

Ramana Maharishi:   The ‘I-thought’ is the ego and that is lost. The real ‘I’ is “I am That I Am.”

Karma yoga is that yoga in which the person does not arrogate to himself the function of being the actor. The actions go on automatically.

Devotee:   The Gita seems to emphasise Karma. For Arjuna is persuaded to fight; Sri Krishna Himself set the example by an active life of great exploits.

Ramana Maharishi:   The Gita starts saying that you are not the body, that you are not therefore the karta.

Devotee:   What is the significance?

Ramana Maharishi:   That one should act without thinking that oneself is the actor. The actions go on despite his egolessness. The person has come into manifestation for a certain purpose. That purpose will be accomplished whether he considers himself the actor or not.

Devotee:   What is Karma yoga? Is it non-attachment to Karma or its fruit?

Ramana Maharishi:   Karma yoga is that yoga in which the person does not arrogate to himself the function of being the actor. The actions go on automatically.

Devotee:   Is it the non-attachment to the fruits of actions?

Ramana Maharishi:   The question arises only if there is the actor. It is being all along said that you should not consider yourself the actor.

Devotee:   So Karma yoga is kartrtva buddhi rahita karma - action without the sense of doership.

Ramana Maharishi:   Yes. Quite so.

Devotee:   The Gita teaches active life from beginning to end.

Ramana Maharishi:   Yes, the actor-less action.

Devotee:   Is it then necessary to leave the home and lead a life of renunciation?

Ramana Maharishi:   Is the home in you? Or are you in the home?

Devotee:   It is in my mind.

Ramana Maharishi:   Then what becomes of you when you leave the physical environment?

Devotee:   Now I see. Renunciation is only action without the sense of being the karta.

Give up thoughts. You need not give up anything else.

Devotee: So we must rid ourselves of lust (kama), anger, (krodha), etc.

Ramana Maharishi: Give up thoughts. You need not give up anything else. You must be there to see anything. It is the Self. Self is ever-conscious.

Devotion is nothing more than knowing oneself

Ramana Maharishi:  Some contend that the sugar cannot taste its own sweetness and that a taster must taste and enjoy it. Similarly, an individual cannot be the Supreme and enjoy the Bliss of that state; therefore the individuality must be maintained on the one hand and God-head on the other so that enjoyment may result! Is God insentient like sugar? How can one surrender oneself and yet retain one’s individuality for supreme enjoyment? Furthermore they say also that the soul, reaching the divine region and remaining there, serves the Supreme Being. Can the sound of the word “service” deceive the Lord? Does He not know? Is He waiting for these people’s service? Would not He - the Pure Consciousness - ask in turn: “Who are you apart from Me that presume to serve Me?” Still more, they assume that the individual soul becomes pure by being divested of the ego and fit for being the body of the Lord. Thus the Lord is the Spirit and the purified souls constitute His body and limbs! Can there be a soul for the souls? How many souls are there? The answer must be, “There are many individual souls and One Supreme Soul.” What is soul in that case? It cannot be the body, etc. What remains over after all these are eliminated must be said to be the soul. Thus even after realising the soul as that which cannot be discarded, the Supreme Soul must be known to exist. In that case, how was the soul realised to be the ultimate reality after discarding all that was alien to it? Should this be right, the soul which was described as that inalienable reality is not the true soul. All such confusion is due to the word ‘soul’ (atma). The same word atma is used to signify the body, the senses, the mind, the vital principle, the individual soul and the Supreme Being. This wide application of the word has given rise to the idea that the individual soul (jivatma), goes to constitute the body of the Supreme (Paramatma). “I, O Arjuna! am the Self, seated in the heart of all beings; ...” (Bhagavad Gita, X-20). The stanza shows that the Lord is the Atma (Self) of all beings. Does it say, “the Self of the selves”? If, on the other hand, you merge in the Self there will be no individuality left. You will become the Source itself. In that case what is surrender? Who is to surrender what and to whom?  his constitutes devotion, wisdom, and investigation. Among the Vaishnavites too, Saint Nammalvar says, “I was in a maze, sticking to ‘I’ and ‘mine’; I wandered without knowing my Self. On realising my Self I understand that I myself am You and that ‘mine’ (i.e., my possessions) is only You.” Thus - you see - Devotion is nothing more than knowing oneself. The school of Qualified Monism also admits it. Still, adhering to  their traditional doctrine, they persist in affirming that the individuals are part of the Supreme - his limbs as it were. Their traditional doctrine says also that the individual soul should be made pure and then surrendered to the Supreme; then the ego is lost and one goes to the regions of Vishnu after one’s death; then finally there is the enjoyment of the Supreme (or the Infinite)! To say that one is apart from the Primal Source is itself a pretension; to add that one divested of the ego becomes pure and yet retains individuality only to enjoy or serve the Supreme, is a deceitful stratagem. What duplicity is this - first to appropriate what is really His, and then pretend to experience or serve Him! Is not all this already known to Him?

How can one be worshipful while engaged in daily work?

Devotee: How can one be worshipful while engaged in daily work?

Sri Bhagavan did not reply. Ten minutes passed. A few girls came for darsan of Sri Bhagavan. They began to sing and dance. Their song was to the effect: “We will churn the milk without losing thought of Krishna.”

Sri Bhagavan turned to the Swami and said that there was the reply to his question. This state is called Bhakti, Yoga and Karma.

Yoga means union. I wonder union of which with which.

Devotee:  “Yoga means union. I wonder union of which with which.”

Ramana Maharishi:  Exactly. Yoga implies prior division and it means later union of one with another. Who is to be united with whom? You are the seeker, seeking union with something. That something is apart from you. Your Self is intimate to you. You are aware of the Self. Seek it and be it. That will expand as the Infinite. Then there will be no question of yoga, etc. Whose is the separation (viyoga)? Find it.

They are nothing but manifestations of the Self so that one’s parents are not outside the Self. So there is no reason to mourn.

Ramana Maharshi then read out from the Tamil version of Yoga Vasishta the story of Deerga Tapasi who had two sons, Punya and Papa. After the death of the parents the younger one mourned the loss and the elder  brother consoled him as follows: “Why do you mourn the loss of our parents? I shall tell you where they are; they are only within ourselves and are ourselves. For the life-current has passed through innumerable incarnations, births and deaths, pleasures and pains, etc., just as the water current in a river flows over rocks, pits, sands, elevations and depressions on its way, but still the current is unaffected. Again the pleasures and pains, births and deaths, are like undulations on the surface of seeming water in the mirage of the ego. The only reality is the Self from where the ego appears, and runs through thoughts which manifest themselves as the universe and in which the mothers and  fathers, friends and relatives appear and disappear. They are nothing but manifestations of the Self so that one’s parents are not outside the Self.  So there is no reason to mourn. Learn it, realise it and be happy.”

I am ignorant

Devotee:  Maharshi knows that I am ignorant.

Ramana Maharishi:  Do you know that you are ignorant? Knowledge of ignorance is no ignorance. All scriptures are only for the purpose of investigating if there are two consciousnesses. Everyone’s experience proves the existence of only one consciousness. Can that one divide itself into two? Is any division felt in the Self? Awaking from sleep one finds oneself the same in the wakeful as well as in the sleep states. That is the experience of each one. The difference lies in seeking, in the outlook. Because you imagine that you are the seer separate from the experience, this difference arises. Experience shows that your being is the same all through.

Can there be Self-Realisation before the vasanas are entirely destroyed?

Devotee: Can there be Self-Realisation before the vasanas are entirely destroyed?

Ramana Maharishi:  There are two kinds of vasanas: (1) bandha hetuh, causing bondage for the ignorant, and (2) bhoga hetuh, giving enjoyment for the wise. The latter do not obstruct realisation.

Devotee:  Are the Self-realised persons reborn? e.g., Vamadeva, Jada Bharata, etc.

Ramana Maharishi:  The Realised ones cannot be reborn. Rebirth is due to vasanas which are binding. But they are destroyed in the state of Self-realisation.

Devotee:  Are we to take it that they had gone to the stage of kevala nirvikalpa but not to sahaja nirvikalpa?

Ramana Maharishi:  Yes.

Devotee:  If only vasanas for enjoyment do not obstruct the state of realisation and if one can look upon the events of the world without his state of bliss being disturbed, it means that attachment alone is bondage. Am I right?

Ramana Maharishi:  Yes, quite. Attachment is bondage. Attachment disappears with the elimination of the ego.

Why then is samsara - creation and manifestation as finitised - so full of sorrow and evil?

Devotee:  Why then is samsara - creation and manifestation as finitised - so full of sorrow and evil?

Ramana Maharishi:  God’s will!

Devotee:  Why does God will it so?

Ramana Maharishi:  It is inscrutable. No motive can be attributed to that Power -no desire, no end to achieve can be asserted of that one Infinite, All-wise and All-powerful Being. God is untouched by activities, which take place in His presence; compare the sun and the world activities. There is no meaning in attributing responsibility and motive to the One before it becomes many. But God’s will for the prescribed course of events is a good solution of the free-will problem (vexata quaestio).

If the mind is restless on account of a sense of the imperfect and unsatisfactory character of what befalls us or what is committed or omitted by us, then it is wise to drop the sense of responsibility and free-will by regarding ourselves as the ordained instruments of the All-wise and All-powerful, to do and suffer as He pleases. He carries all burdens and gives us peace.

Why does not Sri Bhagavan go about and preach the Truth to the people at large?

Devotee:  Why does not Sri Bhagavan go about and preach the Truth to the people at large?

Ramana Maharishi:  How do you know that I am not doing it? Does preaching consist in mounting a platform and haranguing to the people around? Preaching is simple communication of knowledge. It may be done in Silence too. What do you think of a man listening to a harangue for an hour and going away without being impressed by it so as to change his life?

Compare him with another who sits in a holy presence and leaves after some time with his outlook on life totally changed. Which is better: To preach loudly without effect or to sit silently sending forth intuitive forces to play on others? Again how does speech arise? There is abstract knowledge (unmanifest). From it there rises the ego which gives rise to thoughts and words successively. So then:

Abstract Knowledge 

|

 Ego

|

Thoughts

|

Words

Words are therefore the great grandson of the original source. If words can produce an effect, how much more powerful should the preaching through silence be? Judge for yourself.

Hearer is more important than hearing (siddhis)

A devotee mentions a yogi in Madras who is said to hold communion with his master in the Himalayas.

Ramana Maharishi:  It is not more marvellous than telepathy - so commonly known.  Telepathy cannot exist without the hearer and television without the seer. What is the difference between hearing from far and from near? It is only the hearer who matters. Without the hearer there cannot be hearing; without the seer there cannot be vision.

Can we hasten our illumination for greater service? and how?

Devotee:  Can we hasten our illumination for greater service? and how?

Ramana Maharishi:  As we are not able to help ourselves, so we have to surrender ourselves to the Supreme completely. Then He will take care of us as well as the world.

Is not brahmacharya (celibacy) necessary for realisation of the Self?

Devotee: Is not brahmacharya (celibacy) necessary for realisation of the Self?

Ramana Maharishi: Brahmacharya is ‘living in Brahman’. It has no connection with celibacy as commonly understood.

What is Jnana Marga?

Devotee:  What is Jnana Marga?

Ramana Maharishi:  Concentration of the mind is in a way common to both Knowledge and Yoga. Yoga aims at union of the individual with the universal, the Reality. This Reality cannot be new. It must exist even now, and it does exist. Therefore the Path of Knowledge tries to find out how viyoga (separation) came about. The separation is from the Reality only.

Meditation is with mind and how can it kill the mind in order to reveal the Self?

Devotee:  Meditation is with mind and how can it kill the mind in order to reveal the Self?

Ramana Maharishi:   Meditation is sticking to one thought. That single thought keeps away other thoughts; distraction of mind is a sign of its weakness. By constant meditation it gains strength, i.e., to say, its weakness of fugitive thought gives place to the enduring background free from thoughts. This expanse devoid of thought is the Self. Mind in purity is the Self. Sri Bhagavan continued in reply to the former questioner: Everyone says “I am the body”. It is the experience of the sage as also of the ignorant. The ignorant man believes that the Self is confined to the body only, whereas the wise man believes that the body cannot remain apart from the Self. The Self is infinite for him and includes the body also.

Where does one whose jnana is weak fit in?

A question was asked regarding the position of one whose jnana is weak in the scheme of things. The doubt was if that manda Jnani had stopped short of kevala nirvikalpa.

Ramana Maharishi: Kevala nirvikalpa happens even in the tanumanasi stage (of attenuated mind).

Devotee: The middling and superior jnanis are said to be jivanmuktas. Kevala nirvikalpa is in tanumanasa. Where does one whose jnana is weak fit in?

Ramana Maharishi: He comes in sattvapatti (realisation) - whereas the middling and the superior ones come in asamsakti and padarthabhavini respectively. This division as dull, middling, and superior is according to the momentum of prarabdha. If it is strong he is weak; if it is middling he is middling too; if prarabdha is weak he is superior; if it is very weak he is in turyaga. There is no difference in the samadhi state or the jnana of the jnanis. The classification is only from the standpoint of the observer.

Devotee: Is tanumanasi the same as mumukshutva?

Ramana Maharishi: No. The six qualities, discrimination, dispassion and mumukshutva, etc., precede subhechcha. The first stage follows mumukshutva, then comes vicharana (search), then the tenuous mind. Direct perception is in sattvapatti (realisation). There is no need to discuss similar points. Jivanmukti and Videhamukti are differently described by different authorities; Videhamukti is sometimes said to occur even when the man is seen with a body. The fact is that mukti is another name for Aham (‘I’). The Seven Jnana bhumikas (stages of knowledge) are: (1) Subhechcha (desire for enlightenment); (2) Vicharana (hearing and reflection); (3) Tanumanasi (tenuous mind); (4) Sattvapatti (Self-Realisation); (5) Asamsakti (non-attachment); (6) Padarthabhavani (absolute non-perception of objects); (7) Turyaga (beyond words). Those who have attained the last four Bhumikas are respectively called Brahmavit, Brahmavidvara, Brahmavidvarya and Brahmavidvarishtha.

The japa contains the word namah. It means that state in which the mind does not manifest apart from the Self.

Ramana Maharishi: The japa contains the word namah. It means that state in which the mind does not manifest apart from the Self. When the state is accomplished there will be an end of the japa. For the doer disappears and so also the action. The Eternal Being is alone left. Japa should be made until that state is reached. There is no escape from the Self. The doer will be automatically drawn into it. When once it is done the man cannot do anything else but remain merged in the Self.

There is no such thing as ignorance. It never arises. Everyone is Knowledge itself. Only Knowledge does not shine easily.

Devotee: From where did ignorance come?

Ramana Maharishi: There is no such thing as ignorance. It never arises. Everyone is Knowledge itself. Only Knowledge does not shine easily. The dispelling of ignorance is Wisdom which always exists - e.g., the necklace remaining round the neck though supposed to have been lost; or each of the ten fools failing to count himself and counting only the others. To whom is knowledge or ignorance?

Are there heaven (swarga) and hell (naraka)?

Devotee: Are there heaven (swarga) and hell (naraka)?

Ramana Maharishi: There must be someone to go there. They are like dreams. We see time and space exist in dream also. Which is true, dream or wakefulness?

Trace the ego to its source to reach that undifferentiated happy state which is sleepless sleep

Ramana Maharishi:  How happy he was before the rising of the ego! Only the rise of the ego is the cause of the present trouble. Let him trace the ego to its source and he will reach that undifferentiated happy state which is sleepless sleep. 

Ishta Devata and Guru are aids - very powerful aids on this path. But an aid to be effective requires your effort also.

Devotee: Cannot this trouble and difficulty be lessened with the aid of a Master or an Ishta Devata (God chosen for worship)?  Cannot they give the power to see our Self as it is - to change us into themselves - to take us into Self-Realisation?

Ramana Maharishi:  Ishta Devata and Guru are aids - very powerful aids on this path. But an aid to be effective requires your effort also. Your effort is a sine qua non. It is you who should see the sun. Can spectacles and the sun see for you? You yourself have to see your true nature. Not much aid is required for doing it!

One’s activities and circumstances cannot influence the contemplation. It is the sense of doership - kartrutva buddhi - that forms the impediment.

Devotee: Are there not modulations in contemplation according to circumstances?

Ramana Maharishi: Yes. There are; at times there is illumination and then contemplation is easy; at other times contemplation is impossible even with repeated attempts. This is due to the working of the three Gunas (qualities in nature).

Devotee: Is it influenced by one’s activities and circumstances?

Ramana Maharishi: Those cannot influence it. It is the sense of doership - kartrutva buddhi - that forms the impediment.

Change of outlook is necessary to be a mukta

Devotee: I think of Arunachala, but still I am not a mukta.

Ramana Maharishi: Change of outlook is all that is necessary. See what such a change did for Arjuna. He had the vision, of the Cosmic Self. Sri Krishna says: “Gods and saints are eager to see my Cosmic Form. I have not fulfilled their desire. Yet I endow divine sight by which you can see that Form.” Well, having said so, does He show what He is? No. He asks Arjuna to see in Him all that he desires to see. If that were His real form it must be changeless and known for what it is worth. Instead, Arjuna is commanded to see whatever he desires. So where is the Cosmic Form? It must be in Arjuna. Furthermore, Arjuna finds Gods and saints in that form and they are praising the Lord. If the form be withheld from the Gods and saints as said by Krishna, who are they of Arjuna’s vision?

Devotee: They must be in his imagination.

Ramana Maharishi: They are there because of Arjuna’s outlook.

Devotee: Then the outlook must be changed by God’s Grace.

Ramana Maharishi: Yes. That happens to bhaktas.

Devotee: A man dreams of a tiger, takes fright and wakes up. The dream tiger appears to the dream ego who is also frightened. When he wakes up how is it that that ego disappears, and the man wakes up as the waking ego?

Ramana Maharishi: That establishes that the ego is the same. Dream, wakefulness and sleep are passing phases for the same ego.

Devotee: It is so difficult to spot the mind. The same difficulty is shared by all.

Ramana Maharishi: You can never find the mind through mind. Pass beyond it in order to find it non-existent.

Devotee: Then one must directly go to seek the ego. Is it so?

Ramana Maharishi: That’s it.  Mind, ego, intellect are all different names for one single inner organ (antahkarana). The mind is only the aggregate of thoughts.  Thoughts cannot exist but for the ego. So all thoughts are pervaded by ego (aham). Seek where from the ‘I’ rises and the other thoughts will disappear.

Of what use is the fear of death which is common to all?

Devotee: Of what use is the fear of death which is common to all?

Ramana Maharishi: True, it is common to all. Such fear serves no useful purpose because being overpowered by the latent tendencies of the mind the man dies a natural death. It does not lead him to non-attachment and he cannot investigate the matter.

Devotee: How then are you giving the same instruction without distinction to visitors?

Ramana Maharishi: What do I say? The ego in each one must die. Let him reflect on it. Is there this ego or is there not? By repeated reflection one becomes more and more fit.

The person who is holding the 'I-I' feeling tightly is not concerned with the right or wrong of his actions. His actions are God’s and therefore they must be right.

Devotee: Thoughts cease suddenly, then ‘I-I’ rises up as suddenly and continues. It is only in the feeling and not in the intellect. Can it be right?

Ramana Maharishi: It is certainly right. Thoughts must cease and reason disappear for ‘I-I’ to rise up and be felt. Feeling is the prime factor and not reason.

Devotee: Moreover it is not in the head but in the right side of the chest.

Ramana Maharishi: It ought to be so. Because the heart is there.

Devotee: When I see outside it disappears. What is to be done?

Ramana Maharishi: It must be held tight.

Devotee: If one is active with such remembrance, will the actions be always right?

Ramana Maharishi: They ought to be. However, such a person is not concerned with the right or wrong of his actions. Such a person’s actions are God’s and therefore they must be right.

Soul can be without the ego; but the ego cannot be without the soul. They are like bubble and the ocean

Devotee: What is soul?

Ramana Maharishi: Find the ego, the soul is found.

Devotee: Are they then the same?

Ramana Maharishi: Soul can be without the ego; but the ego cannot be without the soul. They are like bubble and the ocean.

What is the relation between my free-will and the overwhelming might of the Omnipotent?

Devotee: What is the relation between my free-will and the overwhelming might of the Omnipotent?
(a) Is omniscience of God consistent with ego’s freewill?
(b) Is omnipotence of God consistent with ego’s freewill?
(c) Are the natural laws consistent with God’s free-will?

Ramana Maharishi: Yes. Free-will is the present appearing to a limited faculty of sight and will. The same ego sees its past activity as falling into a course of ‘law’ or rules - its own free-will being one of the links in that course of law.  Omnipotence and omniscience of God are then seen by the ego to have acted through the appearance of his own free-will. So he comes to the conclusion that the ego must go by appearances. Natural laws are manifestations of God’s will and they have been laid down.

Let the man find out his undying Self and die and be immortal and happy

News of someone’s death was brought to Sri Bhagavan.  "The dead man does not grieve.  The survivors grieve for the man who is dead. Do men fear sleep? On the contrary sleep is courted and on waking up every man says that he slept happily. One prepares the bed for sound sleep. Sleep is temporary death. Death is longer sleep. If the man dies while yet alive he need not grieve over others’ death. One’s existence is evident with or without the body, as in waking, dream and sleep. Then why should one desire continuance of the bodily shackles? Let the man find out his undying Self and die and be immortal and happy.”