What are asanas (postures or seats)? Are they necessary?

Devotee:  What are asanas (postures or seats)? Are they necessary?

Ramana Maharishi:  Many asanas with their effects are mentioned in the Yoga sastras. The seats are the tiger-skin, grass, etc.; the postures are the ‘lotus posture’, the ‘easy posture’ and so on.
Why all these - only to know oneself? “I am the body; the body requires a seat; it is the earth,” thinking thus, he seeks seats. But in sleep did he think of the support or the bed: the bed on the cot and the cot on the earth? Did he not exist in sleep too? How was he then? The truth is - Being the Self, the ego rising up, confusing himself with the body, mistaking the world to be real, differentiating the objects, covered by the ignorance of the ‘I’-conceit, he thinks wildly and also looks for seats. He does not understand that he himself is the Centre of all and thus forms the basis for all. If questioned he talks of the effects of seats and footwear in terms of gravitation, magnetism and so on. Without them he imagines that the power of his austerities will dwindle away. Where from do they all derive their power? He looks to the effects, seeks their causes and imagines them to be the power of seats and of footwear. A stone thrown up falls back to the ground. Why? Owing to the gravitation, says he. Well - are all these different from his thoughts?
Think and say if the stone, the earth and gravity are different from his thoughts. They are all in his mind only. He is the Power and the wielder of it. He is the Centre of all and their support. He is also the Seat. The seat is meant to make him sit firm. Where and how can he remain firm except in his own real state? This is the Seat.

Where were they all? Only in yourself

Ramana Maharishi:  As was already said, the purpose of the whole philosophy is to indicate the underlying Reality whether of the jagrat, svapna and sushupti states, or the individual souls, the world and God.
There are three outlooks possible:-
(1) The Vyavaharika: The man sees the world in all its variety, surmises the creator and believes in himself as the subject. All these are thus reduced to the three fundamentals, jagat, jiva and Isvara. He learns the existence of the creator and tries to reach him in order to gain immortality. If one is thus released from bondage, there are all other individuals existing as before who should work out their own salvation. He more or less admits the One Reality underlying all these phenomena. The phenomena are due to the play of maya. Maya is the sakti of Isvara or the activity of Reality. Thus, existence of different souls, objects, etc., do not clash with the advaitic point of view.
(2) The Pratibhasika: The jagat, jiva and Isvara are all cognised by the seer only. They do not have any existence independent of him. So there is only one jiva, be it the individual or God. All else is simply a myth.
(3) The Paramarthika: i.e., ajatavada (no-creation doctrine) which admits of no second. There is no reality or absence of it, no seeking or gaining, no bondage or liberation and  so on.
The question arises why then do all the sastras speak of the Lord as the creator? How can the creature that you are create the creator and argue that the jagat, jiva and Isvara are mental conceptions only? The answer is as follows:-
You know that your father of this jagrat state is dead and that several years have elapsed since his death. However you see him in your dream and recognise him to be your father, of whom you were born and who has left patrimony to you. Here the creator is in the creature. Again, you dream that you are serving a king and that you are a part in the administrative wheel of the kingdom. As soon as you wake up all of them have disappeared leaving you, the single individual, behind. Where were they all? Only in yourself. The same analogy holds good in the other case also.

As soon as one knows that it is a mirage, one gives it up as useless and does not run after it for procuring water.

Ramana Maharishi:  There are different methods of approach to prove the unreality of the universe. The example of the dream is one among them. Jagrat, svapna and sushupti are all treated elaborately in the scripture in order that the Reality underlying them might be revealed. It is not meant to accentuate differences among the three states. The purpose must be kept clearly in view. Now they say that the world is unreal. Of what degree of unreality is it? Is it like that of a son of a barren mother or a flower in the sky, mere words without any reference to facts? Whereas the world is a fact and not a mere word. The answer is that it is a superimposition on the one Reality, like the appearance of a snake on a coiled rope seen in dim light. But here too the wrong identity ceases as soon as the friend points out that it is a rope. Whereas in the matter of the world it persists even after it is known to be unreal. How is that? Again the appearance of water in a mirage persists even after the knowledge of the mirage is recognised. So it is with the world. Though knowing it to be unreal, it continues to manifest. But the water of the mirage is not sought to satisfy one’s thirst. As soon as one knows that it is a mirage, one gives it up as useless and does not run after it for procuring water.

Devotee:  Not so with the appearance of the world. Even after it is repeatedly declared to be false one cannot avoid satisfying one’s wants from the world. How can the world be false?

Ramana Maharishi:  It is like a man satisfying his dream wants by dream creations. There are objects, there are wants and there is satisfaction. The dream creation is as purposeful as the jagrat world and yet it is not considered real. Thus we see that each of these illustrations serves a distinct purpose in establishing the stages of unreality. The realised sage finally declares that in the regenerate state the jagrat world also is found to be as unreal as the dream world is found to be in the jagrat state. Each illustration should be understood in its proper context; it should not be studied as an isolated statement. It is a link in a chain. The purpose of all these is to direct the seeker’s mind towards the one Reality underlying them all.

Spirit is unlimited and formless. Such too is the spiritual centre. There is only one such centre.

Devotee:  The spiritual leaders in the West say that the spiritual centre is in India. Is there any contact among the spiritual leaders in India? Or is contact possible between the leaders of the East and the West?


Ramana Maharishi:  What do you mean by spiritual centre?


Devotee:  The spiritual centre is the seat of spiritual leaders.


Ramana Maharishi:  What do you understand by ‘spiritual leaders’?


Devotee:  In the West there is a crisis. Scientific knowledge is far advanced. Such knowledge is used for generating destructive forces. There is a movement for making them constructive. When thus diverted it will be for the good of the world. The leaders of this movement are the redeemers.


Ramana Maharishi:  By ‘spiritual leaders’ we understand those who are ‘spiritual’ as opposed to ‘physical’. Spirit is unlimited and formless. Such too is the spiritual centre. There is only one such centre. Whether in the West or in the East the centre cannot differ; nor has it any locality. Being unlimited it includes the leaders, the men, the world, the forces of destruction and of construction. There is no differentiation. You speak of contact because you are thinking of the embodied beings as spiritual leaders. The spiritual men are not bodies; they are not aware of their bodies. They are only spirit, limitless and formless. There is always unity among them and all others; nay, they comprise all.  The spirit is the Self. If the Self is realised, these questions cannot arise at all.

Watch the mind. You must stand aloof from it. You are not the mind

Devotee:  Is not the world reflected on the Self?


Ramana Maharishi:  For reflection there must be an object and an image. But the Self does not admit of these differences.


Devotee:  Does not then Bhagavan see the world?


Ramana Maharishi:  Whom do you mean by Bhagavan?


Devotee:  A jiva advanced more than I.


Ramana Maharishi:  If you understand your jiva the other jiva is also understood.


Devotee:  I do not want to discuss. I want to learn. Please instruct me.


Ramana Maharishi:  Because you desire to learn, discussion is unavoidable. Leave all this aside. Consider your sleep. Are you then aware of bondage or do you seek means for release? Are you then aware of the body itself? The sense of bondage is associated with the body. Otherwise there is no bondage, no material to bind with and no one to be bound. These appear, however, in your wakeful state. Consider to whom they appear.


Devotee:  To the mind.


Ramana Maharishi:  Watch the mind. You must stand aloof from it. You are not the mind. And the Self will remain ever.

The world is not another self similar to the self. It is not different from the self; nor is it part of the self.

Devotee:  Does Bhagavan see the world as part and parcel of Himself? How does He see the world?

Ramana Maharishi:  The Self alone is and nothing else. However, it is differentiated owing to ignorance. Differentiation is threefold: (1) of the same kind: (2) of a different kind, and (3) as parts in itself. The world is not another self similar to the self. It is not different from the self; nor is it part of the self.

What is avidya (Ignorance)?

Devotee:  Sri Bhagavan says that the Heart is the Self. Psychology has it that malice, envy, jealousy and all passions have their seat in the heart. How are these two statements to be reconciled?


Ramana Maharishi:  The whole cosmos is contained in one pinhole in the Heart. These passions are part of the cosmos. They are avidya (ignorance).


Devotee:  How did avidya arise?


Ramana Maharishi:  Avidya is like Maya [she who is not is maya (illusion)]. Similarly that which is not is ignorance. Therefore the question does not arise. Nevertheless, the question is asked. Then ask, “Whose is the avidya? Avidya is ignorance. It implies subject and object. Become the subject and there will be no object.


Devotee:  What is avidya?


Ramana Maharishi:  Ignorance of Self. Who is ignorant of the Self? The self must be ignorant of Self. Are there two selves?

You must admit your own existence. That existence is the Self. It is already realised.

Devotee:  I feel I am like froth.


Ramana Maharishi:  Cease that identification with the unreal and know your real identity. Then you will be firm and no doubts can arise.


Devotee:  But I am the froth.


Ramana Maharishi:  Because you think that way there is worry. It is a wrong imagination. Accept your true identity with the Real. Be the water and not the froth. That is done by diving in.


Devotee:  If I dive in, I shall find........


Ramana Maharishi:  But even without diving in, you are That. The ideas of exterior and interior exist only so long as you do not accept your real identity.


Devotee:  But I took the idea from you that you want me to dive in.


Ramana Maharishi:  Yes, quite right. It was said because you are identifying yourself with the froth and not the water. Because of this confusion the answer was meant to draw your attention to this confusion and bring it home to you. All that is meant is that the Self is infinite inclusive of all that you see. There is nothing beyond It nor apart from It. Knowing this, you will not desire anything; not desiring, you will be content. The Self is always realised. There is no seeking to realise what is already - always - realised. For you cannot deny your own existence. That existence is consciousness - the Self. Unless you exist you cannot ask questions. So you must admit your own existence. That existence is the Self. It is already  realised. Therefore the effort to realise results only in your realising your present mistake - that you have not realised your Self. There is no fresh realisation. The Self becomes revealed.


Devotee:  That will take some years.


Ramana Maharishi:  Why years? The idea of time is only in your mind. It is not in the Self. There is no time for the Self. Time arises as an idea after the ego arises. But you are the Self beyond time and space; you exist even in the absence of time and space.

You are the water and the objects are the bubbles. They cannot exist apart from the water, but they are not quite the same as the water.

Devotee:  Inquiring who the ‘I’ is, I cannot hold it for any length of time. Secondly, I have no interest in the environment, but yet I have hopes that I shall find some interest in life.

Ramana Maharishi:  If there are no interests it is good.

(The interpreter points out that the questioner hopes to find some interest in life).

Ramana Maharishi:  That means there are those vasanas. A dreamer dreams a dream. He sees the dream world with pleasures, pains. etc. But he wakes up and then loses all interest in the dream world. So it is with the waking world also. Just as the dream-world, being only a part of yourself and not different from you, ceases to interest you, so also the present world would cease to interest you if you awake from this waking dream (samsara) and realise that it is a part of your Self, and not an objective reality. Because you think that you are apart from the objects around you, you desire a thing. But if you understand that the thing was only a thought-form you would no longer desire it. All things are like bubbles on water. You are the water and the objects are the bubbles. They cannot exist apart from the water, but they are not quite the same as the water.

After describing the Self as hearer, thinker, vijnata, etc., it is again described as non-hearer, non-thinker, non-knower, Is it so?

Devotee:  After describing the Self as srota (hearer), manta (thinker), vijnata (knower), etc., it is again described as asrota, amanta, avijnata, non-hearer, non-thinker, non-knower, Is it so?


Ramana Maharishi:  Just so. The common man is aware of himself only when modifications arise in the intellect (vijnanamaya kosa); these modifications are transient; they arise and set. Hence the vijnanamaya (intellect) is called a kosa or sheath. When pure awareness is left over it is itself the Chit (Self) or the Supreme. To be in one’s natural state on the subsidence of thoughts is bliss; if that bliss be transient - arising and setting - then it is only the sheath of bliss (Anandamaya kosa), not the pure Self. What is needed is to fix the attention on the pure ‘I’ after the subsidence of all thoughts and not to lose hold of it. This has to be described as an extremely subtle thought; else it cannot be spoken of at all, since it is no other than the Real Self. Who is to speak of it, to whom and how? This is well explained in the Kaivalyam and the Viveka Chudamani. Thus though in sleep the awareness of the Self is not lost, the ignorance of the jiva is not affected by it. For this ignorance to be destroyed this subtle state of mind (vrittijnanam) is necessary; in the sunshine cotton does not burn; but if the cotton be placed under a lens it catches fire and is consumed by the rays of the Sun passing through the lens. So too, though the awareness of the Self is present at  all times, it is not inimical to ignorance. If by meditation the subtle state of thought is won, then ignorance is destroyed. Also in Viveka Chudamani: ativa sukshmam paramatma tattvam na sthoola drishtya (the exceedingly subtle Supreme Self cannot be seen by the gross eye) and esha svayam jyotirasesha sakshi (this is Self-shining and witnesses all). This subtle mental state is not a modification of mind called vritti. Because the mental states are of two kinds. One is the natural state and the other is a transformation into forms of objects. The first is the truth, and the other is according to the doer (kartru-tantra). When the latter perishes, jale kataka renuvat (like the clearing nut paste in water) the former will remain over. The means for this end is meditation. Though this is with the triad of distinction (triputi) it will finally end in pure awareness (jnanam) Meditation needs effort: jnanam is effortless. Meditation can be done, or not done, or wrongly done, jnanam is not so. Meditation is described as kartru-tantra (as doer’s own), jnanam as vastu-tantra (the Supreme’s own).

If the search has to be made within, is it necessary to be in the physical proximity of the Master?

Devotee:  If the search has to be made within, is it necessary to be in the physical proximity of the Master?


Ramana Maharishi:  It is necessary to do so until all doubts are at an end.


Devotee:  If the ego is unreal and troublesome why did we take so much pains to develop it?


Ramana Maharishi:  Its growth and the trouble consequent on such growth make you look for the cause of it all. Its development is for its own destruction.

How are they (Uncertainties, doubts and fears) to disappear?

Devotee:  How are they (Uncertainties, doubts and fears) to disappear?

Ramana Maharishi:  They are the ego. If the ego goes they go with it. The ego is itself unreal. What is the ego? Enquire. The body is insentient and cannot say ‘I’ . The Self is pure consciousness and non-dual. It cannot say ‘I’ . No one says, ‘I’ in sleep. What is the ego then? It is something intermediate between the inert body and the Self. It has no locus standi. If sought for it vanishes like a ghost. You see, a man imagines that there is something by his side in darkness; it may be some dark object. If he looks closely the ghost is not to be seen, but some dark object which he could identify as a tree or a post, etc. If he does not look closely the ghost strikes terror in the person. All that is required is only to look closely and the ghost vanishes. The ghost was never there. So also with the ego. It is an intangible link between the body and Pure Consciousness. It is not real. So long as one does not look closely it continues to give trouble. But when one looks for it, it is found not to exist. Again, in a Hindu marriage function, the feasts continue five or six days. A stranger was mistaken for the best man by the bride’s party and they therefore treated him with special regard. Seeing him treated with special regard by the bride’s party, the bridegroom’s party considered him to be some man of importance related to the bride’s party and therefore they too showed him special respect. The stranger had altogether a happy time of it. He was also all along aware of the real situation. On one occasion the groom’s party wanted to refer to him on some point. They asked for him. He scented trouble and made himself scarce. So it is with the ego. If looked for, it disappears. If not, it continues to give trouble. How it is to be looked for is learnt from those who have already done so. That is the reason why the Master is approached.

Where is the lunatic asylum if it is not within. You will not be in it, but it will be in you

Devotee:  When we read about it we read it intellectually. But it is all too remote. When we see you in body we are brought nearer to Reality and it gives us courage to bring our knowledge into our everyday life. If one realised the Self and acted up to it in the West, one would be locked up in a lunatic asylum. (Laughter.)


Ramana Maharishi:  You will be locking yourself in. Because the world is mad, considers you mad. Where is the lunatic asylum if it is not within. You will not be in it, but it will be in you.  (Laughter).  Uncertainties, doubts and fears are natural to everyone until the Self is realised. They are inseparable from the ego, rather they are the ego.

No special effort is necessary to realise the Self. All efforts are for eliminating the resent obscuration of the Truth.

Ramana Maharishi:   Realisation is of the Self. You cannot remain without  the Self. The Self is always realised. But only you do not recognise the fact. The Realisation is now obscured by the present world idea. The world is now seen outside you and the idea associated with it obscures your real nature. All that is needed is to overcome this ignorance and then the Self stands revealed. No special effort is necessary to realise the Self. All efforts are for eliminating the resent obscuration of the Truth.
A lady is wearing a necklace round her neck. She forgets it, imagines it to be lost and impulsively looks for it here, there and everywhere. Not finding it, she asks her friends if they have found it anywhere, until one kind friend points to her neck and tells her to feel the necklace round the neck. The seeker does so and feels happy that the necklace is found. Again, when she meets her other friends, they ask her if her lost necklace was found. She says ‘yes’ to them, as if it were lost and later recovered. Her happiness on re-discovering it round her neck is the same as if some lost property was recovered. In fact she never lost it nor recovered it. And yet she was once miserable and now she

is happy. So also with the realisation of the Self. The Self is always realised. The Realisation is now obscured. When the veil is removed the person feels happy at rediscovering the ever-realised Self. The ever-present Realisation appears to be a new Realisation. Now, what should one do to overcome the present ignorance. Be eager to have the true knowledge. As this eagerness grows the wrong knowledge diminishes in strength until it finally disappears

How do all thoughts cease when the mind is in the Heart?

Devotee:  How do all thoughts cease when the mind is in the Heart?


Ramana Maharishi:  By force of will, with strong faith in the truth of the Master’s teaching to that effect.


Devotee:  What is the good of this process?


Ramana Maharishi: 
(a) Conquest of the will - development of concentration.
(b) Conquest of passions - development of dispassion.
(c) Increased practice of virtue - (samatva) equality to all.

If the mind is distracted, ask the question promptly, “To whom do these distracting thoughts arise?”

Devotee:  Can the mind be fixed to that point (Heart)? How?

Ramana Maharishi:  If the mind is distracted, ask the question promptly, “To whom do these distracting thoughts arise?” That takes you back to the ‘I’ point promptly


Devotee:  How long can the mind stay or be kept in the Heart?


Ramana Maharishi:  The period extends by practice.


Devotee:  What happens at the end of the period?


Ramana Maharishi:  The mind returns to the present normal state. Unity in the Heart is replaced by variety of phenomena perceived. This is called the outgoing mind. The heart-going mind is called the resting mind.


Devotee:  Is all this process merely intellectual or does it exhibit feeling predominantly?


Ramana Maharishi:  The latter.

How are they (dispassion towards non-self) practised?

Devotee:  How are they (dispassion towards non-self) practised?

Ramana Maharishi:  An examination of the ephemeral nature of external phenomena leads to vairagya.  Hence enquiry (vichara) is the first and foremost step to be taken. When vichara continues automatically, it results in a contempt for wealth, fame, ease, pleasure, etc. The ‘I’ thought becomes clearer for inspection. The source of ‘I’ is the Heart - the final goal.  If, however, the aspirant is not temperamentally suited to Vichara Marga (to the introspective analytical method), he must develop bhakti (devotion) to an ideal - may be God, Guru, humanity in general, ethical laws, or even the idea of beauty.  When one of these takes possession of the individual, other attachments grow weaker, i.e., dispassion (vairagya) develops. Attachment for the ideal simultaneously grows and finally holds the field. Thus ekagrata (concentration) grows simultaneously and imperceptibly - with or without visions and direct aids. In the absence of enquiry and devotion, the natural sedative pranayama (breath regulation) may be tried. This is known as Yoga Marga. If life is  imperilled the whole interest centres round the one point, the saving of life. If the breath is held the mind cannot afford to (and does not) jump at its pets - external objects.  Thus there is rest for the mind so long as the breath is held. All attention being turned on breath or its regulation, other interests are lost. Again, passions are attended with irregular breathing, whereas calm and happiness are attended with slow and regular breathing. Paroxysm of joy is in fact as painful as one of pain, and both are accompanied by ruffled breaths. Real peace is happiness. Pleasures do not form happiness. The mind improves by practice and becomes finer just as the razor’s edge is sharpened by stropping. The mind is then better able to tackle internal or external problems. If an aspirant be unsuited temperamentally for the first two methods and circumstantially (on account of age) for the third method, he must try the Karma Marga (doing good deeds, for example, social service). His nobler instincts become more evident and he derives impersonal pleasure. His smaller self is less assertive and has a chance of expanding its good side. The man becomes duly equipped for one of the three aforesaid paths. His intuition may also develop directly by this single method.

How is restlessness removed from the mind?

Devotee:  How is restlessness removed from the mind?

Ramana Maharishi:  External contacts - contacts with objects other than itself - make the mind restless. Loss of interest in non-Self, (vairagya) is the first step. Then the habits of introspection and concentration follow. They are characterised by control of external senses, internal faculties, etc. (sama, dama, etc.) ending in samadhi (undistracted mind).

How is the mind to be eliminated or relative consciousness transcended?

Devotee:  How is the mind to be eliminated or relative consciousness transcended?


Ramana Maharishi:  The mind is by nature restless. Begin liberating it from its restlessness; give it peace; make it free from distractions; train it to look inward; make this a habit. This is done by ignoring the external world and removing the obstacles to peace of mind.

How shall we discover the nature of the mind i.e., its ultimate cause, or the noumenon of which it is a manifestation?

Devotee:  How shall we discover the nature of the mind i.e., its ultimate cause, or the noumenon of which it is a manifestation?

Ramana Maharishi:  Arranging thoughts in the order of value, the ‘I’ thought is the all important thought.  The second and the third persons do not appear except to the first person.  Trace, then, the ultimate cause of ‘I’ or personality. The ‘I’ idea arises to an embodied ego and should be related to a body or organism. Has it a location in the body or a special relation to any particular spot  Thought-life is seen to centre round the brain and the spinal-cord which in turn are fed by the blood circulating in them, carrying food and air duly mixed up which are transformed into nerve matter. Thus the mind may be regarded as the manifestation of vital force which again may be conceived as residing the Heart.

What is the relation between mind and object? Is the mind contacting something different from it, viz., the world?

Devotee:  What is the relation between mind and object? Is the mind contacting something different from it, viz., the world?

Ramana Maharishi:  The world is ‘sensed’ in the waking and the dream states or is the object of perception and thought, both being mental activities. If there were no such activities as waking and dreaming thought, there would be no ‘perception’ or inference of a ‘world’. In sleep there is no such activity and ‘objects and world’ do not exist for us in sleep. Hence ‘reality of the world’ may be created by the ego by its act of emergence from sleep; and that reality may be swallowed up or disappear by the soul resuming its nature in sleep. The emergence and disappearance of the world are like the spider producing a gossamer web and then withdrawing it.  The spider here underlies all the three states - waking, dreaming, and sleep; such a spider in the person is called Atman (Self), whereas the same with reference to the world (which is considered to issue from the sun) is called Brahman (Supreme Spirit). He that is in man is the same as He that is in the sun. (Sa yaschayam purushe yaschasavaditye sa ekah). While Self or Spirit is unmanifest and inactive, there are no relative doubles; e.g., subject and object - drik and drisya. If the enquiry into the ultimate cause of manifestation of mind itself is pushed on, mind will be found to be only the manifestation of the Real which is otherwise called Atman or Brahman. The mind is termed sukshma sarira or ‘subtle-body’; and jiva is the individual soul. The jiva is the essence of the growth of individuality; personality is referred to as jiva. Thought or mind is said to be its phase, or one of the ways in which the jiva manifests itself - the earlier stage or phase of such manifestation being vegetative life. This mind is always seen as being related to, or acting on, some non-mind or matter, and never by itself. Therefore mind and matter co-exist.

When and how is the disappearance of the objective world (drisya vilaya) to be effected?

Devotee:  When and how is the disappearance of the objective world (drisya vilaya) to be effected?


Ramana Maharishi:  It is complete when the relative subject, namely the mind, is eliminated. The mind is the creator of the subject and the object and is the cause of the dualistic idea. Therefore, it is the cause of the wrong notion of limited self and the misery consequent on such erroneous idea.


Devotee:  What is this mind?


Ramana Maharishi:  Mind is one form of manifestation of life. A block of wood or a subtle machine is not called mind. The vital force manifests as life activity and also as the conscious phenomena known as the mind.